“Avril is living proof that you can be in the most senior level of the government and still be a nice person. This is not always the case to people who attain positions of power.”
On a beautiful October afternoon at the Dineen Hall law building, Jamie Baker, director of the Syracuse University Institute for National Security and Counter Terrorism (INSCT) introduced a woman who carries an impressive set of titles: Avril Haines, former deputy national security adviser to President Barack Obama and deputy director of the CIA. She is currently the commissioner at the National Commission on Military, National, and Public Service; deputy director of the Columbia World Projects; and senior fellow at the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory.
As part of INSCT’s Distinguished Fellows Speaker Series, Haines is here today to discuss law, counter terrorism, national security and her experience working in and for the Obama Administration.
Admittedly, the thought of working on national security had never crossed my mind. My undergraduate research was centered around socio-cultural anthropology and refugee mental health. During my internship at the Department of State, I also attended several lectures on terrorism provided by the U.S. Institute of Peace, because I was interested in how terrorist groups target and recruit refugee populations. But I had never considered security as a profession. Not until today.
Haines was honest with a gentleness that made me feel as though we were all sitting in her living room, rather than a lecture hall. She began by telling us what path led her to the positions she held under President Obama.
“I am honestly the poster child that almost anyone can go into government no matter what your background.”
I smiled when she described her love for science - “My first love is physics” - because it was a familiar story. Growing up, personally, I wanted to be a mechanical engineer. In college, Haines was in a car accident; an experience that inspired her to travel overseas. There, she learned to fly and eventually met her future husband. Together they moved to Baltimore, where she became involved in the community. This inspired her to go to law school. There, she was told to intern at the Department of State.
She smiled at this, “And I loved it.”
Her experience at her internship echoed my own and I felt a shared sense of love and respect for State that I haven’t felt since I left D.C. in December of 2018.
After graduation, she moved to our nation's capital, where she eventually came to work for Obama and the CIA.
Her favorite position, however, was working as assistant legal adviser for the treaty office at the Department of State. “It was a fantastic job,” she said. In her office was a huge vault that held treaties from throughout US history, including the Treaty of Versailles. For her, applying treaty law was the “perfect combination of the intellectual and action.”
Baker then took the opportunity to ask her what her best day was as deputy national security adviser. There was an immediate tone shift as she began to describe Obama’s response to the Charleston church shooting that occurred on June 17, 2015. It was a time of increased racial tensions in America. Obama was to deliver the eulogy for Reverend Clementa Pinckney who died in the shooting. Concurrently, there was a terrorist attack in Sousse, Tunisia that affected American tourists. Haines decided to travel with Obama to Charleston because she and her coworkers were concerned that there would be follow-up events to this attack abroad that the President would need to be kept aware of.
Haines smiles as she described how, on the day of the eulogy, the President had obviously stayed up late working on this speech, and how hard they tried to get him to focus. During that meeting, news came in that same sex marriage had come down the court. On this, she fondly noted, “there are little dramas that occur around these spaces.”
When they arrived at the stadium in Charleston for the eulogy, it was a historical moment: a black president was going to give a speech on race. He first meet with the affected families and those who attended church when the shootings occurred. To one woman, Obama said, “I hope you’re talking to someone. I hope you’re getting help. You need to be able to talk about the trauma you’ve been through.” She told the President that she used to work at the place where the shooter was being held. One of her contacts there said the shooter cried every night. She told the President, “I hope he gets help too.”
When Obama walked across the stage, Haines expressed she was nervous. It was a little tense: a politician coming to a funeral. But when he began, Haines said his grace was extraordinary. “You just felt the stadium warm up and lean in during the speech.”
During the speech writing process, Obama jokingly suggested that he sing at the conclusion. The speech writer advised, “Do not sing Amazing Grace at the end of the speech.”
Haines laughed, “And he did.”
To add to these little dramas Haines spoke of, when they returned to Washington, D.C. the White House was lit up in rainbow colors.
Reflecting on this, Haines said, “If you work on counter terrorism in the government - when you have to use force, you’ve already lost.” At its core, counter terrorism is centered around the disenfranchisement of people that can boil over into violence. In the field, counter terrorism must consider how to manage this. “What we do,” Haines says, speaking on counter terrorism and national security, “is provide space for the president to give speeches like this and experience moments like this [the supreme court decision].”
Lastly, after answering questions about Edward Snowden, Trump’s decision to pull troops out of Northern Syria, and several others, she left the audience with a few final words of wisdom.
The thing she looked back on most - the richest experiences - were the relationships she made. “That, I have no regrets about. I want to work with people I respect and who are doing interesting things - I found that to be a good guide.”
When asked by a student how we, as young professionals, can perpetuate a culture of respect under and after the current presidential administration, she said:
“This is the 64 million dollar question. I am deeply concerned about the degradation of the culture of our institutions. I think all of you can help to change it. You will be the leaders in the government and other organizations. You will have the opportunity to set the tone. Remember how important it is: the example you’re setting.”
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